Berkie Bros

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Re: Berkie Bros

Post by Alien Redrum »

Okay, now I'm to the part about the Devil stuff and MagicK stuff and he's talking about the words on that thing, and how he put one up to the mirror.

This is some Wizard of Oz/Dark Side of the Moon shit, AND I'M ALL IN FOR IT.

No wonder Shiki's so hateful on it. He knows deep down magicK was involved. :mad:
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Neon Maniac (Sun May 09, 2021 10:47 pm)
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Re: Berkie Bros

Post by shiki-jitsu »

OMFG this thing is a hack job. I am literally watching that part now. The leaps in logic...I can’t even call it logic are so fucking insane I am starting to think Maury did the murders for fucks sake.
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Re: Berkie Bros

Post by shiki-jitsu »

Also based on this episode alone I can make a multipart docuseries detailing how this doc is a Freemason funded hit job. We all can connect any dots we want to.
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Re: Berkie Bros

Post by shiki-jitsu »

Ok, so I finished this up tonight. As usual, my complaint with these limited series documentaries is they just don't edit them down enough. SHould have been 3 parts probably. 4 was just too long.

And again as these things usually go they string along a bunch of reasonable things, enough to get you interested and following. Then they go and make a bunch of off the wall shit and then wrap it all up with well... some of it is probably bullshit, yeah he was a bit problematic with a lot of the "investigation" yadda yadda. This seems to be the pattern with these new docs.

Anyway...

My initial impression still stands. He is someone who got obsessed with the case, especially once he knew of his small personal connections into the case and people. He is continually 'validated' in his own mind because the people he feels that are corrupted continually shoot him down and make a mockery of him and his "research".

What is annoying about the whole thing is that the Carr kids could have VERY WELL been part of this whole thing. That is fairly believable. I really don't know, and yeah if they were never talked to (which I find kind of hard to believe) by the NYPD then that is of course a huge failure on their part (color me surprised). But man oh man when you start going into the occult angle. You lose me. The shoehorned attempt at linking the two sigils (Sam's and the Eliphas Goetic evocation sigil) and reading it backwards. Ugh. Just reeks of desperation. Look, I am willing to even go so far at that may be these guys were all playing around with the idea of satanism. Its a stretch. But going further than that is crazytown. Randomly shooting people (badly at that) is not ritualistic in any way shape or form, and the whole snuff film approach doesn't even add into any of this in any intelligible way. Oh they were going to use the snuff film to bring forth the apocalypse. How exactly does that work? Just dumb.

My favorite part was when the hillbilly cops in North Dakota were incredulous that the NYC cops thought they were hillbilly cops. :lol:
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Re: Berkie Bros

Post by Neon Maniac »

Alien Redrum wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 3:56 pm When you guys do spoilers, can you say "Spoiler for episode X".
No I cannot.
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Re: Berkie Bros

Post by Neon Maniac »

I just got back from a trip and I have not seen part 4 yet. But:

A. unreliable Witnesses is courtroom Drama TV. Just like they say a couple of times in the doc, witness sketches usually turn out to be fairly accurate. Don't post the video of the dancing bear and basketball players and all that stupid shit because that's got nothing to do with a sketch. The witness account versus a description of a face is apples and oranges. I could describe both of you based off of when I met you. I would not be able to explain accurately what we did or how we acted. That's where a witness is unreliable.

B. Shiki is just sour grapes because his religion is being picked on here and it's not strong enough to MagicK back at the makers of the doc.

C. Berkey was ex-military, and trained in small arms. He very easily would have been able to fire that Charter Arms revolver 10 feet away from somebody and hit what he was shooting at. If you were not trained and someone handed you a revolver I would be very confident that you would probably not hit what you're shooting at even if it was 10 feet away. It has always bothered me that he attacked 13 people and only killed 6. It makes sense to me that at least two other people would be doing it with those results.

D. Nobody's blaming anything on D&D. Calm down.

E. This is not necessarily a ritual sacrifice situation. This could very easily be a cult hazing, sacrifice of self, or even someone's just weird game of chicken. I understand that Shiki is saying oh this is wrong this isn't how you worship people or do magic. Okay. So either you're saying that there's only one way to do those things or you only know one way to do these things. But when you have people who are influenced by or inspired by something and they start making shit up on their own it's all out the window, baby. Talk about the process church all you want, or whatever they're called, but what does that have to do with Mr. Williams who lives in a hole the wicked wizard of wicker etc etc. Trying to fit it into a specific belief system that you know about is putting a round peg in a square hole. This is all my opinion.

And after re-reading this, what I'm trying to say here is that while this may not be any kind of ritual sacrifice that's part of that church or belief system, that doesn't mean it's not the reason for the murders. People do all kinds of things for crazy reasons. There was obviously people doing satanic shit in the pump house, and if those people believed they were performing rituals, etc, that's all that really matters. There's absolutely nobody who has walked the Earth that can say how to perform any type of satanic ritual. You only have people doing their own versions of satanic rituals. So, you can say that those rituals aren't the same as whatever church's rituals, but that doesn't mean the people performing them aren't satanists or believing they're performing a satanic ritual.

F. The whole weird Hamptons thing just really lost me there. That's like trying to drag a friend of a friend in. That's nonsense.
Last edited by Neon Maniac on Sun May 09, 2021 11:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Berkie Bros

Post by Neon Maniac »

To go off on a little bit more on the C.

I shoot and load 44 special, the caliber of the Charter Arms Bulldog they used. If you have a heavy revolver it is a very soft shooting caliber. The Charter Arms Bulldog is not that heavy and there's going to be a kick to it if you're not used to it.

The 44 special round is amazingly destructive. Back then there weren't fancy bullets like we have now, but even today people who carry 44 special often we'll use the same type of ammo from 1976. Regular FMJ Target rounds. They are large, they are heavy, they make big holes, they break bone. It's a caliber people who hunt with revolvers hunt with. In other words you can take down deer and game size like that with it.

Today due to 20+ years of endless war, there's something called the Golden hour, which means the hour after your shot if you're still alive there's a really good chance that no matter what happened you will remain alive if you get medical treatment within an hour. Back in the 70s, nah.

So you have got an extremely powerful killing round used for hunting, and a medical system that was not yet all that prepared for bullet wounds. 6 out of 13 I don't believe. If it had been the same person doing all of it, it should have been more like a minimum of 10 out of 13, 11 out of 13. 6 out of 13 by one person means they were lucky with those 6, and their lack of training and skill showed up with the other seven. Whichever way I slice this, based on my knowledge of the 44 special round and the Charter Arms revolver, it either points to multiple people, or a lone person who had no idea what they were doing.
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Re: Berkie Bros

Post by shiki-jitsu »

Neon Maniac wrote: Sun May 09, 2021 11:04 pm B. Shiki is just sour grapes because his religion is being picked on here and it's not strong enough to MagicK back at the makers of the doc.
:mffacts:

Or is that just what I want you to think..... :walls:

Honestly. I am going to go a completely different route with this. I am going to go into a more MK Ultra type path. Ex military as you said, clearly Wheaties had some affiliation... otherwise why North Dakota, why that air force base? Did the other brother have any military expreince? This sounds the most plausible. I could even see this playing into the whole ritual magick aspect as well. Lots of hallucination, etc etc.
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Re: Berkie Bros

Post by Neon Maniac »

shiki-jitsu wrote: Mon May 10, 2021 6:50 pm
Neon Maniac wrote: Sun May 09, 2021 11:04 pm B. Shiki is just sour grapes because his religion is being picked on here and it's not strong enough to MagicK back at the makers of the doc.
:mffacts:

Or is that just what I want you to think..... :walls:

Honestly. I am going to go a completely different route with this. I am going to go into a more MK Ultra type path. Ex military as you said, clearly Wheaties had some affiliation... otherwise why North Dakota, why that air force base? Did the other brother have any military expreince? This sounds the most plausible. I could even see this playing into the whole ritual magick aspect as well. Lots of hallucination, etc etc.
This I can buy into. :up:

one of the things in the box that I either missed or they just skipped over was how John was in AFB housing. It did not seem that he was in the Air Force. I also buy that this is more of an MK Ultra thing using Satanism as a cover.
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Re: Berkie Bros

Post by Neon Maniac »

I just finished watching the last episode.

I think I'm about 90% agreed with Shiki on this. I don't think the process church or any real satanic group was involved with this, but I still believe there were multiple actors and I think the people involved were doing their own brand of cult worship. The final interview with Berk and Maury was hard to watch. It was apparent Berk was lying, or if not completely lying, letting Maury believe whatever he wanted to. And it appeared that Maury was trying to fit things together that didn't belong. I think the NYPD totally gave up the investigation once they had Berk, but I don't think that means that Maury's ideas were right.
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Re: Berkie Bros

Post by shiki-jitsu »

Neon Maniac wrote: Tue May 11, 2021 6:46 pm I think the NYPD totally gave up the investigation once they had Berk, but I don't think that means that Maury's ideas were right.
I think this is the key. Of course the NYPD kind of gave up on the case, they had what they needed to move on. And maybe... just maybe if those two numbnuts didn't kill themselves (i am assuming the other brother was a suicide as well) then maybe the killings may have continued. But with those three dead or captured and nothing else happening related I think its evident it was some combination of the three of them. And yes they may have had some delusional cult worship going on, but it was nothing systematic or truly defined. Just tying into their delusions.
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Re: Berkie Bros

Post by Neon Maniac »

shiki-jitsu wrote: Tue May 11, 2021 7:51 pm And yes they may have had some delusional cult worship going on, but it was nothing systematic or truly defined. Just tying into their delusions.
See, I don't think I'd even call it that. I think they were bored people who found each other, and started playing Satanic Cult and it got carried too far for whatever reason. Sort of like how the pizza delivery guy with the bomb around his neck who was forced to rob the bank was the product of a group of bored people, some of who were mentally ill narcissists and came up with plots to do things to people. I wouldn't call that a cult, but I think it was a similar situation in Yonkers, and their flavor was killing animals and pretending to worship satan to freak themselves out.

I think maybe they took it too far, scared themselves and who knows what happened within that group. Meaning, what was said, what was threatened among members, etc. Even who all was involved. I would bet money that it was more than the 2 bros and Berk. I think there was at least 1 more guy, and I'm betting he threatened the others if they told, or was maybe even threatening blackmail against them if they told. This caused the 2 bros to split and Berk to escape into prison to get away from the guy. Obvs this is all conjecture, but I won't ever believe that the look on Berk's face when he was caught was anything other than relief. he didn't get away with the murders, but I think he believed he got away from something worse.
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Re: Berkie Bros

Post by shiki-jitsu »

I think we are saying the same thing for the most part, but yeah I don't know how many more people were in on it.
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Re: Berkie Bros

Post by Neon Maniac »

One thing that's bothered me is that one part where the ex cop is talking about how Berk was a social butterfly and that he had a girlfriend who was part of the cult. They show a picture of her. So did nobody attempted to find her or talk to her? How many more periphery people are there? There is just too much left undone I think.
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Re: Berkie Bros

Post by Alien Redrum »

I finished episode three, so y'all know more than me.

But what about this. Take out all the conspiracies. All of them. Break it down to simplicity. What if the two brothers did the killing, Berkie didn't have anything to do with it except knowing they did it. And when they arrested him he went all in because he's an attention whore.

Like, he kept sending letters to the reporter every so often to keep his name out there, then didn't say SHIT to the cops. You know? Just pulling them along so he can continue to get attention?
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