Folklore in Horror!

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Re: Folklore in Horror!

Post by AngryScholar » Fri Feb 22, 2019 3:02 am

Neon Maniac wrote:
Thu Feb 21, 2019 10:00 am
But more to the point, here's an interesting post from Horror Homeroom that breaks down the specific use of "folk horror" that I'm referring to. While I share your feeling that The Wicker Man isn't a very good film, I think it's fair to say that it's an iconic entry in the folk horror subgenre.
So what you're really talking about is British Pagan Wheat Horror? I find it interesting that you would consider that folk horror, while disregarding horror that has actual folk elements to it. Thank you for the article, I apologize for wasting your time.
Think we might have a miscommunication here, Neon. I'm not saying that's what folk horror is: I'm just saying that's how the term is typically used. If you have a different way of using it, that's exactly what I'm interested in learning more about.

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Re: Folklore in Horror!

Post by Neon Maniac » Thu Feb 28, 2019 2:24 am

AngryScholar wrote:
Fri Feb 22, 2019 3:02 am


Think we might have a miscommunication here, Neon. I'm not saying that's what folk horror is: I'm just saying that's how the term is typically used. If you have a different way of using it, that's exactly what I'm interested in learning more about.
But you did.
AngryScholar wrote:
Tue Feb 19, 2019 5:43 pm

For example, The Wicker Man is arguably the most famous example of "folk horror."
I think the miscommunication here is that the article you linked to is written by someone who I believe has no idea what they're talking about. They have very shallow depth of knowledge on those films, and more specifically the film history of that era.

As I mentioned earlier, Wicker Man is a rip off of 2 different but very similar Lovecraft stories. The mythos was changed from Dagon to Samhain. Bob's your uncle. Tell me again how this is folk horror? Does the removal of sea weed in exchange of wheat make the difference? Are we eating green eggs and ham in a box and not liking it, so we're eating it in a car and deciding it tastes better that way? Because it seems that window dressing is what we're discussing, not actual folklore.

Conquerer Worm (What the author of the article refers to as Witchfinder General) and Blood on Satan's Claw are Hammer era films that were made for extremely low budgets in about 2 weeks. Plot was less than secondary to either of the films when they were being made, which is why you see gratuitous shots of wheat and horse riding. Their main selling points were gratuitous nudity and violence, and names horror fans liked.

So, aside from the internet hipster article you linked to, who exactly is defining those as folk horror? Does the addition of wheat make it more authentic? How about scowling? Because people always scowl in wheat movies. It can't be the story, because the minute you start to analyze the story, the story falls apart. From my experience, folklore stories have been around so long because they don't fall apart.

So at this point I've got to believe that if you have wheat, scowls, buckles on shoes, and non-christians, that is the penultimate of folk horror. And I call complete baloney on that, and especially on that article. Sorry if you or a loved one wrote it, on the internet it's hard to know. I'm not saying the author is an idiot, just that they really have no idea what they're talking about when it comes to some things.
Last edited by Neon Maniac on Thu Feb 28, 2019 10:00 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Folklore in Horror!

Post by Neon Maniac » Thu Feb 28, 2019 4:50 am

Alien Redrum wrote:
Thu Feb 21, 2019 6:35 pm


See, I think this is where I separate from you and Neon. I don't consider icons such as Slender Man, Freddy, Jason, Myers, etc., horror. For me at least, in order to consider it folklore, it has to have a kernel of belief from someone (or multiple somones).

I don't consider Slender Man as an icon, horror, or anything really other than the scribblings of a 12 year old, but since that 12 year old was online, certain people gave it a legitimacy that wouldn't have been there if it was scribbled on a half sheet of crumpled notebook paper. He's not a full idea, he's a doodle. Ditto for 'Hat man' 'Shadow People' and the endless parade of all new "classic" personalities. Personalities are about the only thing I can call them. They'd be the C list stars on the celebrity panel, or sitting next to Bruce Villanche on Hollywood Squares.
Alien Redrum wrote:
Thu Feb 21, 2019 6:35 pm

Like Dracula. I don't consider Dracula folklore, but I do consider the vampire folklore. Same with werewolves.
When I was saying Dracula, I really was talking about vampires in general. The point I was making was that Dracula was successful as it had defined the vampire mythos for the 20th century. I was also using it as a point that it also falls into every category that article defines as 'folk horror' yet it's not being accepted in that article as folk horror. I'm guessing because it's too main stream for the hipster fanboi author.
Alien Redrum wrote:
Thu Feb 21, 2019 6:35 pm

Yet something like Jason, Freddy, Myers and the like...no one is going to believe that they are real. They may always be part of pop-culture/history, but not folklore. I need my folkore based in some sort of reality or experience.
I agree to a degree. I think there's potential there. I was almost going to say, "Look at the end of Mad Max Beyond Thunderdome when the kids are using Viewmaster reels to describe the previous world and where they came from," as a way to point out how ignorance of origin will often cause people to create scenarios based on their current information. Meaning, 3 generations after the end of The Stand, people may not realize those characters weren't real.

But as I was thinking about it, I don't think you'd even have to go to that extreme. People are idiots now days. When the moon landing becomes a fairy tale and people think the Earth is flat, why wouldn't they believe Freddy, Jason, whatever, aren't real?

What about Superheroes? I kind of throw them all in the pop culture stew.
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Re: Folklore in Horror!

Post by Alien Redrum » Thu Feb 28, 2019 6:45 pm

Neon Maniac wrote:
Thu Feb 28, 2019 4:50 am
Alien Redrum wrote:
Thu Feb 21, 2019 6:35 pm


See, I think this is where I separate from you and Neon. I don't consider icons such as Slender Man, Freddy, Jason, Myers, etc., horror. For me at least, in order to consider it folklore, it has to have a kernel of belief from someone (or multiple somones).

I don't consider Slender Man as an icon, horror, or anything really other than the scribblings of a 12 year old, but since that 12 year old was online, certain people gave it a legitimacy that wouldn't have been there if it was scribbled on a half sheet of crumpled notebook paper. He's not a full idea, he's a doodle. Ditto for 'Hat man' 'Shadow People' and the endless parade of all new "classic" personalities. Personalities are about the only thing I can call them. They'd be the C list stars on the celebrity panel, or sitting next to Bruce Villanche on Hollywood Squares.
TBH, that's because you are old. :lol:

But, yeah, I get you. I don't necessarily either, but this is a great example of something being entirely generational. My nephew and niece, as well as those relatively their age would disagree with you.

I mean, I find the origin of the Slender Man fascinating, especially on how it's become a part of pop culture (not including those dumb little twats trying to kill their friend over him), but it would not surprise me if over time his mythos grew.
Neon Maniac wrote:
Thu Feb 28, 2019 4:50 am
Alien Redrum wrote:
Thu Feb 21, 2019 6:35 pm

Yet something like Jason, Freddy, Myers and the like...no one is going to believe that they are real. They may always be part of pop-culture/history, but not folklore. I need my folkore based in some sort of reality or experience.
I agree to a degree. I think there's potential there. I was almost going to say, "Look at the end of Mad Max Beyond Thunderdome when the kids are using Viewmaster reels to describe the previous world and where they came from," as a way to point out how ignorance of origin will often cause people to create scenarios based on their current information. Meaning, 3 generations after the end of The Stand, people may not realize those characters weren't real.

But as I was thinking about it, I don't think you'd even have to go to that extreme. People are idiots now days. When the moon landing becomes a fairy tale and people think the Earth is flat, why wouldn't they believe Freddy, Jason, whatever, aren't real?

What about Superheroes? I kind of throw them all in the pop culture stew.
I can kinda see your point, but not really. Sure, there are stupid people out there, but by using your example, for every flat earther or anti vaxxer or climate change denier, there are countless others telling them how stupid they are, and they (the countless others) have proof on their side.

Yes, you'll have some dipshit in the future thinking Jason Vorhees was a real dude, and yes, someone will call them a dumdum and show them the movie, and yes, that dumbass believer will think it's a documentary. But I don't think there will ever be enough of those dummies to make it 'real' enough to be folklore. Just like there will never be enough flat earthers for it to be taught in school. Or never enough anti vaxxers for the laws to stop vaccinations.

Take Frankenstein, for example. We're about 3 or 4 generations out for that big guy and I can't think of anyone who thinks he was anything but a created character.

But now I'm pissed because there was a movie or show with a scene in it where a cop or someone in authority was talking to these two goofballs and they were claiming Batman was real and the movies were documentaries. And I can't remember it. :mad:
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Re: Folklore in Horror!

Post by Neon Maniac » Fri Mar 01, 2019 3:05 am

Alien Redrum wrote:
Thu Feb 28, 2019 6:45 pm

TBH, that's because you are old. :lol:

But, yeah, I get you. I don't necessarily either, but this is a great example of something being entirely generational. My nephew and niece, as well as those relatively their age would disagree with you.

I mean, I find the origin of the Slender Man fascinating, especially on how it's become a part of pop culture (not including those dumb little twats trying to kill their friend over him), but it would not surprise me if over time his mythos grew.
:mad: I'm barely older than you, Sunshine. :mad:

I agree it's definitely generational. The origin is fascinating. Thanks to the internet you've got the exact origin of this urban legend and all the proof in the world that it is a fact that it's fictional. But people are believing in it regardless. I kind of see it as a symptom of bigger, worse things though. If your boogeyman is proven to be just an internet story but you still believe in it, it's not a difficult stretch to see why they'd also believe in Flat Earth, Pizzagate, and other ridiculous, disproven things.
Alien Redrum wrote:
Thu Feb 28, 2019 6:45 pm

Take Frankenstein, for example. We're about 3 or 4 generations out for that big guy and I can't think of anyone who thinks he was anything but a created character.
Of course, because we're not complete morons and there's been a direct link to the origin of Frankenstein that we all know. We are 3-4 generations out, yes. But civilization and society has remained intact. We are not the children at the end of Thunderdome living in a cave with only some old encylclopedias and viewmaster reels to teach us all of history and the world around us. We haven't lost the origin so why would we believe it? I was basically saying that once the origin is obscured, anything is possible.

And comparing it to Slender Man, where people believe regardless of the origin, it's not a leap to think that there are people who believe Frankenstein is/was real on some level today.
Last edited by Neon Maniac on Fri Mar 01, 2019 3:24 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Folklore in Horror!

Post by Alien Redrum » Fri Mar 01, 2019 3:12 am

Oh! Okay, you were being literal with some end-of-the-world type shit.

Yeah, we're on the same page for sure. :up:
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Re: Folklore in Horror!

Post by Neon Maniac » Fri Mar 01, 2019 3:26 am

Alien Redrum wrote:
Fri Mar 01, 2019 3:12 am
Oh! Okay, you were being literal with some end-of-the-world type shit.

Yeah, we're on the same page for sure. :up:
Yeah, I'm saying remove the origin, make a disconnect, and what's fact and what's fiction becomes blurred.
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Re: Folklore in Horror!

Post by AngryScholar » Sat Mar 02, 2019 5:45 pm

Thanks for the input, guys. You've given me some things to think about.

Neon, I wasn't challenging your perspective by linking to that blog article. All I was hoping to point out was that there are often certain assumptions that get attached to the term "folk horror," just as there are with other genre terms, like "giallo," or "slasher," or "supernatural thriller." The whole point of me asking you about all of this is to learn what you think about it, and you've made it clear that you have different ideas about what counts as "folk horror." I appreciate that very much! It's interesting to see that there are different uses of the term from what I've encountered elsewhere.

One example of something I personally would consider folk horror (just my opinion!) is the series of video games called Fatal Frame. Those games are all about fighting angry ghosts with a magic camera, which sounds silly but can actually be pretty terrifying. But most of the games have characters that are actually identified as folklorists, who go to remote places to study old supernatural legends, and usually end up unleashing some kind of supernatural evil. This is similar to a lot of supernatural horror elsewhere, of course, but I really like it because I'm a folklorist, and I actually do study that stuff. (I like Candyman for similar reasons!)

At any rate, I do appreciate you both taking so much time to thoughtfully answer my questions--it's a big help!


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